Johannes Erdfelt wrote:
> >
> > Because otherwise you have another system you also need to support.
>
> Things take time to phase in.
>
... and until they do, they are mostly a curiousity. If EFI turns
ubiquitous, then we can see if we can use it to clean up booting. For
now, it's a non-issue.
> > > > I don't expect to see it on 32-bit machines any time soon
> > >
> > > Why don't you expect to see it anytime soon? Intel is pushing it now.
> > > They are far from standards makers, but they do have some weight...
> >
> > Intel pushing != becoming ubiquitous. They have been trying to get rid
> > of ISA for years. It isn't happening.
>
> Following your line of reasoning, Intel should not have started
> developing and pushing PCI since they cannot get rid of ISA immediately.
>
> I for one thank Intel that they did. I'd hate having to run a modern
> system off of just ISA.
>
PCI got working only because it, by and large, pretends to be ISA to
most of the system. Even so, it took quite a few years to catch on, and
even longer to become ubiquitous.
> >
> > The PC platform is over 20 years old, and if there is any evidence it
> > isn't going to go through such a fundamental change any time soon.
> > Perhaps by 2010 something will happen. I'm not holding my breath.
>
> There's nothing fundamental about it. It's an evolutionary upgrade to
> the PC platform.
>
It's evolutionary only if you use it in BIOS mode, i.e. again, it's not
our concern at this time.
> No one said that this will immediately solve all our problems, but it
> will be better for everyone in the long run.
>
> The current method of booting OS' sucks. It's a hack on top of a kludge
> on top of a band aid. I'm really surprised to see you so pessimistic about
> fixing this.
No question it sucks. The entire PC platform sucks. I'm pessimistic
about that ever changing, because ever "improvement" usually builds on
the previous kluges and usually just creates an even worse mess. The
PXE booting standard that Intel has also been pushing, for example, is
so buggy -- both in spec, and in implementation -- that it is just one
step away from unusable.
Anyhow, for the time being, EFI is a non-entity. It doesn't exist on
any real platforms. I don't expect it to happen any time soon, *because
PC vendors don't need it*. PC vendors don't ship serial console support
in BIOSes, even though BIOS vendors sell them, because they don't have
to, and BIOS vendors want an extra $0.50 or so per machine if they do.
Things don't change in the PC world unless they absolutely have to.
IA64 machines are another platform, and that's a completely different
matter. However, I can promise you that the PC (IA32) platform won't
change any more than it absolutely have to.
> I'm starting to get the distinct impression from you that you really
> would rather see nothing change in Linux (getting rid of major/minor
> number) and PC's (legacy style booting of OS'). This really surprises
> me.
I'm starting to get the distinct impression you're trying to use ad
hominem arguments when you run out of technical ones. This I find
pitiful.
-hpa
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Thu Jun 15 2000 - 21:00:32 EST