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Roger Espel Llima wrote:
> > - - Still, there is Harmony, the project for a free replacement of
> > Qt and it is making good progress. So stop whining and help
> > them, if you think that Qt's license is a problem.
>
> _That_ is pretty much the only way to solve the issue. Do you have
> a URL for Harmony?
KDE links it from their homesite, http://www.kde.org,
seehttp://www.kde.org/whatiskde/qt.html for details about Harmony. There =
is
information about the Foundation at http://www.kde.org/kdeqtfoundation.ht=
ml,
also. The Harmony Home Site is http://harmony.ruhr.de.
> > But no, instead you start all over and create a second,
> > incompatible toolGit throwing away several 100,000 lines of
> > fine code that has already been written for KDE. Is it just me
> > or is this really, objectively stupid?
>
> Have you looked at GNOME? Its point is not just to redo KDE with a
> different toolkit; it's to do a desktop according to the ideas and
> concepts of a number of people who differ with KDE on a lot of things
> more important than the toolkit used.
I don't care. I have been around in the Unix world for about 12 years now=
and
I have already survived the GUI wars back then. I don't need them again i=
n a
Freeware version. Back then it was Sun's OpenView vs. TOG's Motif and it
almost killed commercial Unix. Now it is KDE vs. Gnome and it will hurt b=
adly
again. This must stop, now.
But instead I see RedHat fueling the war by commercially enhancing the
lagging Gnome project and expanding on a second, incompatible API. There =
is
no way anybody in Freenix land will ever support two APIs and there can b=
e
only one winner if this goes to war. This winner lives in Redmond.
> Doing another take from scratch
> at writing some kind of program is not "objectively stupid" unless
> the program in question is perfect; obviously not everyone thinks KDE
> is perfect.
Of course it is objectively stupid, because KDE need not be perfect. It i=
s
enough if it is healthy enough to be perfected and not even the most ferv=
ent
Gnome supporter would dare to say that KDE is not viable or even broken b=
y
design (considering the technical design as well as the license).
This is just the same with that two package managers madness. Instead of
incorporating missing features into rpm the Debian people started dpkg an=
d
they even used an incompatible format (and then came a third distribution=
with a third format). rpm was never broken beyond repair, but now we have=
two
incompatible formats, both of which are to big to die.
> Why do you hate the existence of a completely different competing proje=
ct?
Because it hurts the "sales" of Linux as a whole. The sum of both parts i=
n
this will be smaller than the whole and that is a loss for everyone invol=
ved.
Again, look up on the Unix GUI wars to understand. Or just imagine yourse=
lf
firing up the KDE control center to set up preferences for your desktop
environment, then starting the Gnome control center to set up preferences=
for
your Gnome applications, which are stored differently and in a different
place. Then think of yourself in a user help desk, answering calls from u=
sers
where you have to explain why certain applications look different than
others, work different than others or don't even talk to each other. Then=
think yourself in the postition of a IT manager forced to upgrade 1200
desktop machines from 32 MB to 48 MB or 64 MB because that RAM is needed =
to
hold two GUI libraries and their helper applications in memory so that a
mixed desktop can be operated.
Of course none of these persons you just imagined will ever be in the
position described, because nobdy with a sane mind will maneuver himself =
into
this situation. The save buy from Redmond guarantees compatibility,
interoperability and efficiency in a way such a mess like the unorganized=
,
too-many-choices-to-get-anything-done Unix desktop can never deliver. Lin=
ux
is just about to prove that. Again.
> I _like_ the fact that there are two of them, and that none is a straig=
ht
> clone of the other, and that they have a different design philosophy. =
It
> means more choice for me.
Unless you are a developer forced to support both. Then it means more wor=
k
and less revenue.
> Huh? Are you arguing that KDE invented the concept of a desktop?
KDE started the Linux desktop. There was no need to start another such
project, splintering valuable ressources and ghurting both camps AND Linu=
x as
a whole in the public perception.
> The
> "G" people can only complain about _ONE_ thing, which is anyone taking
> their CODE and linking it with Qt, since some of them obviously feel
> that that is not allowed with their licensing.
And these license issues will not help owning the desktop, either. "Yes, =
you
can have Gimp, which is free. And you can have KDE, which is also free. B=
ut
no, you can't have a KDE Gimp, because we don't like that. You will have =
to
decide which applications you want to use: Either KDE or Gimp. Or you wil=
l
have to invest and learn, support, distribute and maintain two incompatib=
le
systems on your Desktop". This simply won't fly. It didn't eight years ag=
o
and it will not now.
Kristian
-- Kristian Koehntopp, Wassilystrasse 30, 24113 Kiel, +49 431 688897 "Das grunds=E4tzliche Problem der Politiker ist, da=DF sie Globalit=E4t r= eden, aber nicht denken k=F6nnen, w=E4hrend die Netizens Lokalit=E4t reden abe= r nicht realisieren k=F6nnen." -- Lutz Donnerhacke auf debate@fitug.de
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