Re: Dual-Licensing Linux Kernel with GPL V2 and GPL V3

From: Ingo Molnar
Date: Fri Jun 15 2007 - 17:48:34 EST

* Alexandre Oliva <aoliva@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> On Jun 15, 2007, Ingo Molnar <mingo@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> > it irreversibly cuts off certain people from being to distribute
> > GPLv3-ed software alongside with certain types of hardware that the
> > FSF's president does not like.
> That's not true. They can just as well throw the key away and refrain
> from modifying the installed software behind the users' back.

uhm, so you claim that my argument is false, and your proof for that is
a "non-upgradeable Tivo"?? <sarcasm> That is a _great_ idea. Not being
able to patch security holes. Not being able to fix bugs. Not being able
to add new features. Makes complete sense. Will be a hit on the market!
Every PVR maker will flock from Windows to Linux i'm sure. </sarcasm>

really, do you even _read_ what you write? All your arguments so far
were instantly debunkable. This is one of the lowest quality GPL
discussions i was ever involved in ...

furthermore, the fact that the GPLv3 had to add carved out exceptions
for the anti-Tivo languge is further _proof_ that the whole idea is
absurd to begin with! It's like writing a nice new function to implement
something, and then when it shows many design flaws, you'd not just
admit that it's flawed and would get rid of it and redesign it, you'd
instead pretend that it's fine and you'd carve out a few of the more
common failure modes and would hack it around in that case.

> > Activities other than copying, distribution and modification are
> > not covered by this License; they are outside its scope.
> > guess why this section has been completely removed from the GPLv3,
> > without a replacement?
> My guess:
> First, because it was redundant, given that the license didn't quite
> discuss other activities. Unless you count say "imposing restrictions
> on the exercise of others' freedoms" as other activities, even though
> these are associated with modification and distribution.

here you prove that you cannot even read what i wrote. I wrote that this
section has been removed from the GPLv3. What relevance does it have
that in your opinion this section was redundant in the GPLv2?? It would
clearly not be redundant in the GPLv3: it would contradict and
_completely neutralize_ most of the crap from the GPLv3 that we are
talking about here ...

> Second, because GPLv3 does indeed talk about other activities, such as
> starting lawsuits on patent and pro-DRM grounds, or entering
> agreements for distribution of software along with limited patent
> licenses. All of these are still associated, at least to some extent,
> with modification and distribution, but I guess it was worth
> clarifying that claiming that such harmful activities are outside the
> scope of the license isn't a valid excuse to escape the conditions
> determined by the license.

dont you realize that declaring certain types of activities by hardware
makers as being "against freedom" is _exactly_ such an activity that the
GPLv2 did not attempt to control? I could tell you offhand a dozen more
examples of human activities that restrict the 4 GNU freedoms of users
_much more_ than the Tivo ever did: for example censure, opression of
free speech, out of control climate, dictatorship, campaign financing
laws, the WIN32 API and human stupidity. By your argument we'd have to
add prohibition against those restrictions of freedom to the license
too, right? Your argument still leads to absurd results, even now that
you've modified it a few times already ...

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