Re: GPLv3 Position Statement
From: Linus Torvalds
Date: Wed Sep 27 2006 - 13:52:20 EST
On Wed, 27 Sep 2006, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
> It's not as if most (all?) widespread linux-embedded devices are not
> flashable nowadays. Factory recall everytime you need to fix a
> security/feature bug just costs too much
Side note: it's not even about factory recalls, it's that flash chips are
literally cheaper than masked roms for almost all applications.
Mask roms are expensive for several reasons:
- they force extra development costs on you, because you have to be
insanely careful, since you know you're stuck with it.
So it's not even just the cost of the recall itself: it's the
_opportunity_ cost of having to worry about it which tends to be the
biggest cost by far. Most devices never get recalled, and when they do
get recalled, a lot of people never bother about it. So the real cost
is seldom the recall itself, it's just the expense of worrying about
it, and wasting time on trying to make things "perfect" (which never
really works anyway)
- during development, mask roms are a big pain in the ass, so you need to
build all your development boards (even the very final one! The one
that is supposedly identical to the released version!) with a flash
anyway, even if you can only program it by setting a magic jumper or
So using a mask rom means that your development platform pretty much
will never match the actual hw platform you sell. That's a DISASTER.
It's like always developing and testing with the compiler using the
"-g" flag, but then _shipping_ the binary with "-O". Nobody sane would
ever do that - it just means that all your verification was basically
- They force you to use a specialized chip. Mass production usually means
that in any kind of low volumes, specialized chips are always going to
be more expensive.
People seem to sometimes still believe that we live in the 1980's. Mask
roms used to be relatively "cheaper", because it wasn't as much about
standardized and huge volumes of chips. These people should please
realize that technology has changed in the last quarter century, and
we're not playing "pong" any more.
[ Side note: is there a good "pong" box you can buy? I want pong and the
real asteroids - the one with vector graphics. And I realize I can't
afford the real asteroids, but dang, there should be a realistic pong
somewhere? Some things are hard to improve on.. ]
So even if you don't actually want to upgrade the machine, it's likely to
have a flash in it simply because it's often _cheaper_ that way.
And it not at all uncommon to have a flash that simply cannot be upgraded
without opening the box. Even a lot of PC's have that: a lot (most?) PC's
have a flash that has a separate _hardware_ pin that says that it is
(possibly just partially) read-only. So in order to upgrade it, you'd
literally need to open the case up, set a jumper, and _then_ run the
program to reflash it.
People do things like that for fail-safe reasons. For example, a portion
of the flash is read-only, just so that if a re-flashing fails, you have
the read-only portion that verifies the signature, and if it doesn't
match, it contains enough basic logic that you can try to re-flash again.
Those kinds of fail-safes are absolutely _critical_, and I'm not talking
about some "hypothetical" device here. I'm talking very much about devices
that you and me and everybody else probably use every stinking day.
In fact, I can pretty much guarantee that pretty much everybody who is
reading this is reading it on a machine that has an upgrade facility that
is protected by cryptographic means. Your CPU. Most of the microcode
updaters have some simple crypto in them (although sometimes that crypto
is pretty weak and I think AMD relies more on just not documenting the
Look into the Linux kernel microcode updater code some day, and please
realize that it talks to one of those evil "DRM-protected devices".
And dammit, this is all OK. If people want to write a GPL'd microcode
update, they damn well should be able to. Oh, but the GPLv3 forbids them
from doing that without giving out the keys used to sign the result.
"But that's ok, because the FSF is looking out for all of us, and
we know mommy knows best."
So it's all good.
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