Re: [PATCH] aic79xx should be able to ignore HostRAID enabled adapters

[Heinz Mauelshagen]

On Mon, Dec 05, 2005 at 01:06:41PM -0800, Darrick J. Wong wrote:
> All,
> 
> At last, I've been given the go-ahead to work on hostraid support for
> dmraid.  I'll post some patches when I've made some progress.

Very good.
Looking forward to your contribution to dmraid.

> 
> Is linux-lvm the appropriate place for dmraid patches/discussion?  I
> couldn't find any mailing lists that sounded more appropriate.

ataraid-list@xxxxxxxxxx for dmraid.
dm-devel for device-mapper.

Regards,
Heinz    -- The LVM Guy --

> 
> --D
> 
> Jeff Garzik wrote:
> > Salyzyn, Mark wrote:
> > 
> >> Jeff Garzik [mailto:jgarzik@xxxxxxxxx] sez:
> >>
> >>> All throughout development, before Justin had written a single line
> >>> of code, he was told to do things via Device Mapper.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> He did not strictly write the emd code, it was written years earlier by
> >> a team. It's release was the result of it being placed on his lap
> >> submit.
> > 
> > 
> > Ah, I stand corrected.
> > 
> > I just recall being on concalls months prior to public EMD release,
> > urging the use of Device Mapper, and telling Adaptec and other involved
> > companies that the submission would be rejected if the current course
> > was continued.
> > 
> > No doubt it was very frustrating for the engineers doing the work to
> > have their months of effort rejected, but it was also frustrating for
> > me, since I was trying make all parties aware of the impending rejection
> > well in advance.
> > 
> > 
> >> As I said, it all ended up being an unfortunate timing of events with
> >> unexpected side effects. At each instant of time it has always been
> >> clear what to do ...
> >>
> >> 2005? We tried to set up a case for ROI for the support of a dmraid
> >> plugin. I am merely a JAFO to that process trying to push it along.
> > 
> > 
> > Well, all your efforts are appreciated :)
> > 
> > Adaptec has an unfortunate history of simply not communicating well with
> > the Linux community -- and I note that's a two-way street.  I've even
> > heard it whispered that Linux people "hate Adaptec", that we take some
> > sort of pleasure out of putting the screws to Adaptec.
> > 
> > Nothing could be further from the truth.
> > 
> > Exclusing you, Mark, who seems to understand this stuff, Adaptec just
> > seems to have a tough time understanding the rationale and goals behind
> > the feedback from SCSI and Linux maintainers.
> > 
> > Adaptec -- excluding aacraid -- continues to have a history of (a) being
> > grossly dissatisfied with the current SCSI code, and (b) concluding that
> > a proper solution simply works around all the problems.  That's a fair
> > perspective, but Linux prefers the more cross-vendor approach of
> > modifying the base Linux code.
> > 
> > Greater than Linux itself, the GPL and open source create a commodity
> > effect:  competitors work on the same piece of software, rather than
> > producing competing versions of software.  Out of this principle falls
> > the "update SCSI core, don't workaround in your driver" approach.  Ditto
> > for use of Device Mapper, rather than doing RAID in the driver itself,
> > or duplicating effort with EMD.  With open source, code duplication just
> > increases effort, decreases test coverage, and increases the likelihood
> > of bugs.
> > 
> > The downside (from a vendor perspective) is that vendor engineers are
> > drafted into updating the Linux core, when a new spiffy hardware feature
> > needs to be supported.  This is actually not a downside, but a benefit.
> >    In the long run, common code is highly reus{able,ed}, leading to
> > rapid development, vastly increased test coverage, and maintainable even
> > if the original hardware vendor goes out of business, or EOLs the hardware.
> > 
> > I wish I could rewind the clock, and demonstrate to Justin, Scott, Luben
> > and other Adaptec engineers that there are solid reasons behind each of
> > these decisions, and its not "politics" or "NIH" or "we hate you" or "we
> > are the anointed ones, bow to us."
> > 
> > Linux doesn't have a roadmap, rather it has certain code patterns that
> > experience has taught us are sustainable, portable, and performant in
> > the long term.  As long as new source code fits these code patterns, we
> > welcome the addition with open arms.  From any company.
> > 
> >     Jeff

*** Software bugs are stupid.
    Nevertheless it needs not so stupid people to solve them ***

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Heinz Mauelshagen                                 Red Hat GmbH
Consulting Development Engineer                   Am Sonnenhang 11
Cluster and Storage Development                   56242 Marienrachdorf
                                                  Germany
Mauelshagen@xxxxxxxxxx                            +49 2626 141200
                                                       FAX 924446
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